“American women don’t know many things about themselves. They try to be right. You have to be yourself. But you have to know who you are.” Sonia Rykiel
No, I didn’t say that. It’s the famous French designer, Sonia.
At Barbara DeMarco Barrett’s “Pen on Fire Speaker Series,” I had the pleasure of listening to American author, Debra Ollivier, talk about her new book, What French Women Know. Ollivier, an American, married a French man and lived in the 19th arrondissement in Paris long enough to give her an amazing perspective on the differences between both cultures, and how women view love, sex and other matters of the heart and mind.
I have taken some snippets out of Ollivier’s book, What French Women Know, to show how well she describes the differences between American and French women. “When we American women aren’t busy trying to change ourselves, we’re often busy trying to change our men.” She mentions an American women’s magazine titled, “Can You Fix Him?” which drives her point across. This is not how French women think. They use emotional intelligence, in more subtle ways.
In another interesting example Ollivier quotes her French friend, Cecile. “Love is not a balance sheet….I did this for you; now you do that…love and sex don’t work that way… Living happily with men is about finding a way to achieve reciprocity and complementarity, not perfect 50-50 egalitarianism.”
One of the reasons American women may not be as happy as French women is that Americans strive for perfection. “French women generally don’t strive for exalted standards of happiness, neither do they strive for exalted standards of moral perfection,” Ollivier writes. Because most French women know who they are, “they often don’t give a damn what we think of them.” Ollivier says, “they don’t grow up with the cultural mandate to be liked.”
From having spent many years in France, I completely agree with this statement. I find myself translating phrases such as, “You did such a great job,” “I love your hair,” the way I would speak to friends in the U.S., into French, and it often comes across as completely phony. Often there’s an awkward silence, and I remember, this is not how French women speak to one another. I have to try to become the “French” woman in France, and the “American” woman in the U.S.
I found the examples Ollivier gives in her book fascinating. I’m curious what comments or questions you have regarding the differences between women of different cultures.
Oh, I want to read this! Very interesting. Little American girls are taught to be "pleasers." Or at least they used to be. Pam
I am no authority on this, but one of the things that I think make French women different from women from many other cultures, is that they are by and large comfortable in their own skins. And they have perfected the art of pulling up their shoulders and saying: C'est la vie and meaning it.
You bring an interesting perspective to this — especially with your note about translation at the end.
I lived overseas for some time and found that Europeans are often more comfortable with silence than Americans, also. They don't seem to feel the need to express every thought that crosses their minds.
It was a good thing to learn.
– Julia at Midwest Moms
Wow! I never realized the differences between us and French women. I thought there were basic universal truths about females worldwide, but it looks like I could be wrong! 🙂
Good post, thanks for bringing this book to my attention. Sounds like a good read. I don't understand women that expect the household duties and the child-rearing to be 50/50. Is that even attainable? At the age I am now, I don't care what people think of me. They don't like me, they can move right along.
I was not aware that American women are not as happy as French women. . . .but I do think that there is a certain measure of artificialness in American culture that can make it hard for some women to be content. Its probably hard for me to compare, I have never personally known a French woman and I have lived more years outside the USA than in the country.
Its an interesting concept never the less.
I don't know that many Americans so can't really comment. Although, as a European, I can say that we are pretty comfortable being who we are. As a Brit, I'd say that we regard French women as being very sophisticated and elegant.
Swedish women are very honest and are not men pleasers – they expect men to do half of the housework and child-rearing.
One difference though is that they are obssessed with cleaning, and want their houses looking spotless more or less all the time. (Not me though, I like the dust balls in the corner…)
Not American or French (though definitely female), but this post really resonated with me.
Speaking from experience, the day I started loving myself for who I was rather than trying to attain perfection was the day I started enjoying life.
I certainly have views of Latina women and how they also view their lives. I could write forever about it really…
I have learned a lot from living in South America for about 6 1/2 years now. I wouldn't know where to begin, but I think one of the biggest lessons I have learned is that you really do need to take care of yourself first. When you look and feel good, your partner/spouse/boyfriend will like what they see. Sometimes in America I hate it when I hear a women say "What do I need to do that for him for?…." insert various words for that.
Anyways, as I said, I could go on and on…if you want me to email me 🙂
BG
Fascinating, Sonia. I'll have to get this book! As a European (Dutch) married to an American I have noticed many differences, of course. The first time I came to the US as a foreign student I was instructed to make sure I said "Thank you" a lot.
Later I realized that in Holland we don't say "thank you" (literally) nearly as much as Americans do. But that does not mean we are not polite or appreciative. We express it by saying "That was fun!" "I had a wonderful time." "Great that you could do this for me," and that sort of thing, expressing appreciation in various sentiments and declarations other than "Dank je wel."
I'm looking forward to reading the book about what French women know. I'm wondering what I know 😉
Miss Footloose
http://www.lifeintheexpatlane.blogspot.com
Tales of the Globetrotting Life
I think many American women do strive for perfection because we are bombarded with unrealistic images in the media. We can never achieve that so we are unhappy..After living in Mexico for many years I found that Mexican women are much happier. Why? They have a lot of help raising their children so they have more time to themselves. They aren't so uptight about everything being perfect. They do spend way too much time on their appearance though. I felt a lot of pressure to always look good, even when I went to the grocery store! You dont see women is sweats and sneakers, ever..If you do you assume they are American.
Someone told me this once though that I think is very true.."Mexican women spend too much time on the outside, their appearance, and not enough on the inside cultivating their mind. American women spend too much time analyzing things and "trying" to be happy and not enough on their outside, their physical bodies." Of course this isnt true for everyone but I think it was a Mexican womans opinion of why American women are in general overweight..
Just some thoughts Sonia, love your blog, you always keep me thinking! 🙂
@Anonymous/Pam
Perhaps it's also to be "popular" and "liked."
@Rispa Frances
You make a good point there. I wonder how we can make American women feel "good in their own skin," too. Is it really the media that's having such a negative effect on women?
@Midwest Mom
Interesting point about Europeans being more comfortable with "silence." I have to say that at French dinner tables, it seems like there's no silence. Everyone is debating or "arguing" their point across. It's almost a game.
@LadyGlamis
I think there are some fundamental similarities, like women nurturing their kids etc., but there are so many differences, which is why I love to travel.
Oh, it is so interesting to read your posts!
I am not American, nor am I French, and I cannot pretend that I understand perfectly either of the sides. I do think though that Romanians are much closer to the French in many ways. I really find it hard to believe that the all or most French women "know who they are". This is such a high spiritual aspiration for all human kind, I don't think the French master it better than others. I also believe that wanting to please is a generic human disease. I doubt the French don't suffer from it.
Why are American women so fascinated with the French? This is what I don't get. Romanians love the French too and want nothing more than be like them. Still, it's a bit different, I think. I don't know.
Very interesting subject.
This is a fascinating conversation- a good book – women around the world. Who will write it?
I live in Botswana and here women are so independent. I think it might come from when most of the men went away to the mines in South Africa for years on end. Men are a bit obsolete in many ways here. Women do everything for themselves. That's the big difference I noticed when I moved here.
I just caught your comment back from January.
Thanks for the visit.
In Finland women are independent. At home men do "their half" of the cleaning, parenting etc.
Finnish women look (generalizing) natural, do not overuse make-up etc.
If I have to compare to French woman…oh, boy! French one is much more stylish and I guess, more "colder" than Finnish woman.
On the other hand. Finns are quite shy which is often mixed with the coldness.
When you get to know a Finn he/she is your friend forever! 🙂
and one more thing.
We do not talk all the time.
Sometimes it's difficult with Americans who have a need to talk all the time saying nothing…I guess you understand what I mean! 🙂
Sounds like a fascinating read,and a most interesting seminar.I am very comfortable with who and what I am.
I don't go out of my way to please anyone–sort of just comes naturally to me. You are so authentic, Sonia–nothing is lost in translation.
European women do have a different perspective on love and marriage, etc., butI don't feel I need to adapt or adopt the philosophies they espouse.
I've learned that my man can't really change, but he's loved, nonetheless.
I'm looking forward to seeing you again very soon.
Cheers!
Oprah did a show about women from around the world..it was so bad, she used stereotypical women and I was embarassed for them.. shame on you Oprah..I dont know how you could ever depict a whole culture with one person, we are all so different no matter where we come from.
Interesting post. Honestly, I wouldn't have guessed there is a different. I think all people can learn from the "c'est la vie" vibe.
@Elizabeth
I know, isn't it nice to get older? We get more comfortable with ourselves.
@Brenda
Just move to OC, especially in the wealthier neighborhoods, and you'll meet many "artificial" women as you pointed out.
@LadyFi
I remember the cleaning part. Danes are too, so perhaps it's a Scandinavian thing to keep a clean house.
@Rayna
Glad to hear that you have found the way to enjoy your life.
@Ballerina Girl
You live in Brazil? The capital of plastic surgery? I'm sure you could go on and on, and I'd love to read you blog on that too.
@MissFootloose
Isn't it funny/strange how thhose of us who know people in different countries, feel like we have to say the things the way people are used to hearing us say them.
@Margot,
Very interesting comment you made, and yes, I agree the U.S. media is to blame for many women feeling they have to look perfect, which often leads to an artificial look.
@LOri
You bring up a great question, "Why are women so fascinated with French women. Perhaps it's the way they seem self-confident and sophisticated, and are opinionated.
@Lauri
It's so wonderful to hear about women in Botswana, as this is not a place we often hear about. There was a documentary made recently and the American black woman said she noticed how "happy" the women were in Botswana.
@BLOGitse,
I think I know what you mean about coming across as being "cold"
when you are shy. I love Finland. Went there once.
@GulfGal
I agree, it's nice to feel comfortable with who we are, and I see that in you. Look forward to my visit back to Naples, FL, in a few weeks.
@Anonymous,
Was that the show on what is perceived as beauty in different countries, or something else?
@Crimogenic
Yes, women and men are different around the world. Different discussions, different perceptions, etc.
Diversity is blessing!
I would love to read that book!
My personal opinion?
I have lots of French friends and I find them attractive because not only are they social geniuses but they are not afraid to be feminine. The accent is sexy, the style is sexy and they behave sexy. There is nothing silent about them. Oh and they ALWAYS smell nice/perfumed. (My friends that is – I can't speak for the rest of the nation).
South African women are also very feminine and aware of what they look like. Again – generally social geniuses.
Americans? Well, America is a big country and very different from France. That goes for the way the men behave as well as the women. Maybe American women would behave more like French women if their men behaved like French men?
I find American women in Europe to be a breath of fresh air. They are social geniuses compared to the locals. Again – I am speaking of the 12-15 American women I know in Norway.
As for Norwegian women. They work hard. They don't get treated to lunch and facials (luxuries that are more common in southern Europe and America). They are generally not as 'passionate' and lively as the French or American because in Norway we have the 'janteloven'. Which basically states that one mustn't stand out too much.
It's hard to find time for oneself as a woman in Norway. So why fret? Rather be strong and make hubby do his share. Fair it is – sexy it aint!!
Personally I don't find my Scandinavian friends to be an ounce more confident than their American sisters. They just have a different behaviour pattern.
A complex subject.
hey sonia….interesting post! and great blog….i'm following you now. glad to have connected via linkedin. 🙂
jeannie
The Character Therapist
@Return to Norway,
You bring up a very interesting point. Perhaps American women would act more like French women if American men were more like french men. Thanks for your long and interesting comment.
I have lived in France for almost 11 years and have to agree with these comments. I have noticed that most French women genuinely don't care what other people think of them. Quite liberating really! There is very little place for small talk in this society or superficial politeness. It can be disconcerting too.
I need to read this book too. Sounds fascinating. Maybe I'm a little french?? When some one compliments my hair, it always seems phony to me.
Fasinating comments and observations! I've lived in France, and in fact Debra Ollivier used some of my observations about the liberating aspect of being a woman in France in her book.
Unfortunately, for me and for all bloggers, se used the essay without attribution or permission!
http://pollyvousfrancais.blogspot.com/2009/09/what-french-women-know-part-one.html
The book sure has its merits, but her treatment of bloggers should make all bloggers wary, n'est-ce pas?
Thanks for your interesting observations, and a great blog.
I believe that one should not try to be like any body else. American women tend to idolize the barbie look all perfect and all. they may have good jobs loads of clothes security in life but i ind them to be pathetic, striving to be someone else and not learning to live with and love themselves.
They work them selves to their graves but they are most unhappy with their work. They see TV those great looking leading ladies with the perfect hair job boyfriend etc and feel miserable. They are always in search of Mr Perfect. Newsflash there isint any. You must first know yourself and know what you want. And everything will fall into place. What works for some body else will not work for you.
Adity Das Gupta
ads_ac@hotmail.com
I believe that one should not try to be like any body else. American women tend to idolize the barbie look all perfect and all. they may have good jobs loads of clothes security in life but i ind them to be pathetic, striving to be someone else and not learning to live with and love themselves.
They work them selves to their graves but they are most unhappy with their work. They see TV those great looking leading ladies with the perfect hair job boyfriend etc and feel miserable. They are always in search of Mr Perfect. Newsflash there isint any. You must first know yourself and know what you want. And everything will fall into place. What works for some body else will not work for you.
Adity Das Gupta
ads_ac@hotmail.com
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